From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Sun Mar 1 15:22:03 2009 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 15:17:10 -0800 From: Dave Kennedy To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:135/knaggs.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 1107 Lines: 29 Hi, Good article. I have a problem which I hope you can help me with. `` Env: Nomachine Nxclient for Windows 3.3.0-6 CENTOS 4.7 i686 on standard nx-3.2.0-8.el4.centos.i386.rpm freenx-0.7.3-1.el4.centos.i386.rpm '' If I login remotely as root the gnome desktop is displayed OK but login as another user the !M splash screen is displayed and then closes with no gnome desktop. How can I verify that gnome is 'enabled' for the user? Thanks +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Fri Mar 6 08:58:15 2009 From: Ben Okopnik Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:53:10 -0500 To: Dave Kennedy Cc: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:135/knaggs.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 2346 Lines: 56 On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 03:17:10PM -0800, Dave Kennedy wrote: > Hi, > Good article. > I have a problem which I hope you can help me with. > > Env: > Nomachine Nxclient for Windows 3.3.0-6 > CENTOS 4.7 i686 on standard > nx-3.2.0-8.el4.centos.i386.rpm > freenx-0.7.3-1.el4.centos.i386.rpm > > If I login remotely as root the gnome desktop is displayed OK > but login as another user the !M splash screen is displayed > and then closes with no gnome desktop. > > How can I verify that gnome is 'enabled' for the user? I'm not all that familiar with Nomachine/NXclient, but I recall a similar problem with X that commonly came up. It used to happen because the user would have their ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession file set up in such a way that all the processes started from there terminated. I.e.: ``` xterm -bg yellow -fg red & # Launch an xterm and background it Xcal & # Launch a calendar and background it twm & # Launch the window manager - and OOOPS! ''' Since the execution of this file stops at this point - all the processes are backgrounded, so this child process can terminate - X now has nothing to "hold it open", and exits immediately. The point here is that the last invocation, the WM, should not have been backgrounded; in fact, it should have been executed as 'exec twm', which would replace the child shell in which the session file was being executed. Then, when the user quit the WM, you'd exit the only thing that was holding the X session open. No guarantees, but this may be what's happening for you. Check both of the files I've mentioned above carefully. -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Wed Mar 4 19:33:52 2009 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 00:33:03 -0300 From: Deividson Okopnik To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/lg_bytes.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 977 Lines: 18 [ Wait, wait... this is like a repeat nightmare. Isn't there a standard story about how the Chevrolet Nova didn't sell well in Mexico because 'no va' in Spanish means 'no go'??? Only this time, it's not clueless American GM executives deciding on the name... -- Ben ] Nova also means new in some spanish based languages (including portuguese) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 5 00:23:52 2009 From: Neil Youngman To: The Answer Gang Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:22:38 +0000 Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/lg_bytes.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 992 Lines: 22 [ Wait, wait... this is like a repeat nightmare. Isn't there a standard story about how the Chevrolet Nova didn't sell well in Mexico because 'no va' in Spanish means 'no go'??? Only this time, it's not clueless American GM executives deciding on the name... -- Ben ] standard story == urban legend http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp Neil +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 5 14:39:13 2009 From: Ben Okopnik Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:34:02 -0500 To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/lg_bytes.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 1820 Lines: 35 On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 08:22:38AM +0000, Neil Youngman wrote: > [ Wait, wait... this is like a repeat nightmare. Isn't there a standard story > about how the Chevrolet Nova didn't sell well in Mexico because 'no va' in > Spanish means 'no go'??? Only this time, it's not clueless American GM > executives deciding on the name... -- Ben ] > > standard story == urban legend I clearly didn't make my tongue-in-cheek attitude obvious here. I'm quite aware of the Snopes entry (perhaps linking to it would have been prevented misunderstandings), and that _is_ what I meant by "standard story"; that's what made it so amusing. It's not like Cuban students at a Cuban uni creating a Cuban distribution would be unaware enough of their own language to name their distro anything questionable or weird, any more than Mexicans are likely to name their national distro after a sugar cone or a nail, or Dominicans have one called "Grab me!", or Venezuelans use "Catch your friends!" (I may have the locations wrong, but all of the above carry... um, strong indirect meanings in Spanish depending on the place.) -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 5 07:14:32 2009 From: Ben Okopnik Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:09:47 -0500 To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 1248 Lines: 29 I just realized that I forgot one either minor or major thing in this article, depending on how you look at it: how to actually auto-run 'idesk' under IceWM. Since Ubuntu does its own thing with startup files, adding things to ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession won't do anything useful. However, IceWM itself supports an init file mechanism of its own: if you place a file called 'startup' into your ~/.icewm directory and make it executable, it will be run when you start IceWM. Mine consists of nothing more than ``` /usr/bin/idesk & ''' -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Wed Mar 11 04:22:18 2009 From: Larry Tobos To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:19:02 -0400 Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 1256 Lines: 26 Nice work. Just a couple of points: - 374 MB RAM for a 64bit machine is more like half of that on a regular 32bit cpu (give and take), unless you specifically optimize your code (which I doubt most of the ports do) - you could opt for openbox, it supports menus and configuration of the FreeDesktop initiative - in my case the switch was waaay less painful than going the old way with icewm- once you install obmenu and obconf, your initial GNOME menus are transparently imported. And don't forget to remove Nautilus, and use instead rox-filer or PCManFM as your file manager. +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Wed Mar 11 10:55:42 2009 From: Ben Okopnik Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:51:11 -0400 To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Cc: Larry Tobos Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 1996 Lines: 43 On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 07:19:02AM -0400, Larry Tobos wrote: > Nice work. Thanks for the feedback, Larry! > Just a couple of points: > > - 374 MB RAM for a 64bit machine is more like half of that on a regular > 32bit cpu (give and take), unless you specifically optimize your code > (which I doubt most of the ports do) I realize that. The catch-22 here is that bringing the memory up to a reasonable amount (e.g., 2GB) would cost about half of a brand-new notebook with that amount of memory - but throwing away a perfectly-good laptop would be a stupid thing to do as well. What to do? Linux + lightweight DM/apps is the best answer I know of. > - you could opt for openbox, it supports menus and configuration of the > FreeDesktop initiative - in my case the switch was waaay less painful than > going the old way with icewm- once you install obmenu and obconf, your > initial GNOME menus are transparently imported. And don't forget to remove > Nautilus, and use instead rox-filer or PCManFM as your file manager. I've got an even easier way to handle that one: menu-xdg (also from FreeDesktop.) Once you've installed it, your IceWM (or whatever) menus will be auto-updated with new apps every time that 'update-menus' is run. -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Wed Mar 11 11:27:46 2009 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:56:52 +0530 From: Kapil Hari Paranjape To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Cc: Larry Tobos Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 1626 Lines: 39 On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 Larry Tobos wrote: > - 374 MB RAM for a 64bit machine is more like half of that on a regular > 32bit cpu (give and take), unless you specifically optimize your code > (which I doubt most of the ports do) It is possible to run 32-bit code on a 64-bit machine. One way is to run a 32-bit (s)chroot. This was described in LG #150 On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 Ben Okopnik wrote: > I've got an even easier way to handle that one: menu-xdg (also from > FreeDesktop.) Once you've installed it, your IceWM (or whatever) menus > will be auto-updated with new apps every time that 'update-menus' is > run. Users of "icewm" (like me) will soon have to put in some work on either on fixing this wm and/or its libs or on shifting to another wm since it depends on older versions of libraries (imlib1). The same unfortunately applies to "fvwm" (gtk1 and glib1). ISTR something about running quite hard to stay in the same place :-) Kapil. -- +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 12 07:44:04 2009 From: Larry Tobos To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:41:16 -0400 Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 2534 Lines: 66 Please don't "fix" it. I remember a time when fvwm was a light nimble wm, just like openbox, icewm, and so forth. Then they added some crappy dependencies, which weren't even necessary if you didn't care for the latest "bling".. and bloated it 10 times. The only fix needed is already there: SuSE 9.3 has the packages necessary to import your menus into IceWm from KDE and/or Gnome, i.e. to make it compliant with the FreeDesktop way of doing the menus. (just used that couple years ago). I know you can, problem is, any data type will roughly gobble twice that much memory on your 64 bit system: this was EXACTLY what I was trying to say, if you read my message. Sincerely, Larry Tobos From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 12 08:10:41 2009 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:09:53 +0000 From: Thomas Adam To: The Answer Gang , Larry Tobos Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 1425 Lines: 30 2009/3/11 Kapil Hari Paranjape : > Users of "icewm" (like me) will soon have to put in some work on > either on fixing this wm and/or its libs or on shifting to another wm > since it depends on older versions of libraries (imlib1). > > The same unfortunately applies to "fvwm" (gtk1 and glib1). [ Dons his FVWM-developer hat. ] No, there's nothing to fix. The only GTK1 "dependency" if it's wanted is FvwmGTK -- funnily enough this is being discussed on the FVWM-workers mailing list at the moment. No GTK1 libs means it's not built at all -- so I am not sure what you mean at all by "fix" -- and note this FVWM module is *NOT* about being able to access GNOME's or KDE's menus -- there's separate ways to do that. The same logic applies to gdk-imlib. -- Thomas Adam +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 12 08:12:41 2009 From: Larry Tobos To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:11:16 -0400 Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 3830 Lines: 85 Fantastic ! This is what I was refering to (menu-xdg and the xml way of doing menus- well, more or less), but my memory betrayed me (oh yeah, long time ago ...) And I agree, this is the way to go- was just pointing out that in your case it is even more so: as if you would have a 200 MB ram 32bit system! More or less to the point: I have an even older Inspiron 5000 lap: PIII 600 MHz, initially 256 MB. Using Metacity + Gnome, it would be very annoying to try and watch movies. Just switching to a light wm like openbox or icewm won't cut it, as long as you keep metacity alive, to give you all the "bling". Going initially to a "bare" openbox session, I had a very spartan (plug here: Go Green, Go MSU!) right click menu. Then back in Gnome, I used Ubuntu's (that's what I have on that machine) package manager to install some more packages (again, sorry for missing all details- personal RAM has major refresh problems .. :) ) and probably behind the scenes this installed the xdg-menu scheme. Now I can happily switch into openbox AND icewm and all Gnome menus are just a right click away, without Metacity. Nice ! I can have an acceptable movie experience with scifi.com (hello to all BSG fans out there), not great, but a-OK. Last week, I upgraded for about $30 to 384 MB RAM, but I would not say it made a huge difference. Another testimony to Linux done right. Sorry for the long post, I hope someone may find it helpful, and maybe you guys can fill in the missing pieces and write a new article about say multimedia on crappy old hardware. Or just host a discussion where your readers share their experiences/experiments. From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 12 08:12:19 2009 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:11:25 +0000 From: Thomas Adam To: The Answer Gang Cc: tobos@msu.edu Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 1157 Lines: 26 2009/3/12 Larry Tobos : > PLease don't "fix" it. I remember a time when fvwm was a light nimble wm, > just like openbox, icewm, and so forth. Then they added some crappy > dependencies, which weren't even necessary if you didn't care for the latest > "bling".. and bloated it 10 times. [ Still wearing his FVWM developer hat. ] Err, *only* if you want those features -- or turn them off at ./configure time -- you're free to do just that, you know. And FVWM is still very light and nimble. -- Thomas Adam +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 12 09:04:02 2009 From: Larry Tobos To: Thomas Adam , The Answer Gang Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:31:17 -0400 Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 2018 Lines: 52 Sorry for the confusion, I did not want to insult anybody, well, let's better say any of the developers involved in fvwm. What I was refering to, is that some distros started about some years ago to package fvwm together with loads of other dependencies, some necessary, some maybe not. Personally I can't stand when for a simple header include of one function, I have to take in the rest of tens of MB of the lib that provides it. But you are right, I know, that's the beauty of open source. Oh well, where are the days of installing Slackware 3 from 7 diskettes ... maybe then people would start appreciating more the value of the megabyte !! Larry From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Thu Mar 12 08:39:52 2009 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:38:28 +0000 From: Thomas Adam To: Larry Tobos Cc: The Answer Gang Reply-To: The Answer Gang Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:160/okopnik.html MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Status: RO Content-Length: 2015 Lines: 40 2009/3/12 Larry Tobos : > Sorry for the confusion, > > I did not want to insult anybody, well, let's better say any of the > developers  involved in fvwm. What I was refering to, is that some distros > started about some years ago to package fvwm together with loads of other > dependencies, some necessary, some maybe not. Personally I can't stand when > for a simple header include of one function, I have to take in the rest of > tens of MB of the lib that provides it. But you are right, I know, that's > the beauty of open source. Don't top-post, please. I suspect what you're looking at here is a distribution-policy aspect. Binary distributions (i.e., not source-based like Gentoo) have to have a trade-off between adding in enough functionality for a good user-experience, which invariably means annoying someone for having a depenency where one poor user thinks this an infringement of disk space when it's downloaded. You think that's bloated with FVWM? Balderdash, confer GNOME and KDE. ;) This is perhaps the only beneficial reason why source-based distros might outweigh binary ones; such library depenencies can be turned on/off at will for packages before they're compiled. Then again, you can still do that with binary ones, it's just typically after the fact of having installed and downloaded the program in the first place. -- Thomas Adam +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Sat Mar 28 02:13:14 2009 Return-Path: Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.COM [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2S9D5Ut025372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:13:07 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37632 helo=linuxmafia.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.61 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1LnUb0-0000Qr-Ml ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:12:58 -0700 Received: from mail-fx0-f168.google.com ([209.85.220.168]:35699) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.61 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1LnUaV-0000Qb-FT for ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:12:42 -0700 Received: by fxm12 with SMTP id 12so1295221fxm.25 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:12:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.57.67 with SMTP id b3mr1038087bkh.128.1238231530274; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:12:10 +0200 Message-ID: <519f663a0903280212y377fcbf5m7e8c5948124f5fd8@mail.gmail.com> From: Marius Pana To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of marius.pana@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.168 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-BeenThere: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8rc1 Precedence: list Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on genetikayos.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.4 Subject: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:140/kapil.html Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1545692331==" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:42:28 +0200) Status: RO Content-Length: 1911 Lines: 49 There seems to be issues with the cpio (copy command) as it will copy /prov over! for example /proc has 0 disk space used in my / root filesystem. In /tmp/target it now has 4.8GB?! and the cpio operation fails with a no space on device error. I am about to try and change the option to cpio / find and see if I cant get it to work. Regards, Marius From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Sat Mar 28 04:52:10 2009 Return-Path: Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2SBq0N3030806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Mar 2009 04:52:01 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38579 helo=linuxmafia.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.61 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1LnX4d-0000yW-Mt ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 04:51:43 -0700 Received: from mail.imsc.res.in ([61.95.189.5]:1999) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.61 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1LnX4E-0000yF-9O for ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 04:51:19 -0700 Received: from banyan.imsc.res.in ([172.16.1.76] ident=Debian-exim) by mail.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LnX49-00056a-25 for tag@lists.linuxgazette.net; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:21:09 +0530 Received: from [172.16.1.51] (helo=dabba.imsc.res.in) by banyan.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LnX47-0003vp-IA for tag@lists.linuxgazette.net; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:21:09 +0530 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:20:06 +0530 From: Kapil Hari Paranjape To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net Message-ID: <20090328115006.GA13946@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net References: <519f663a0903280212y377fcbf5m7e8c5948124f5fd8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <519f663a0903280212y377fcbf5m7e8c5948124f5fd8@mail.gmail.com> X-gazette-tag: kapil User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-BeenThere: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8rc1 Precedence: list Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on genetikayos.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.4 Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:140/kapil.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:42:28 +0200) Status: RO Content-Length: 2019 Lines: 59 Hello, On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Marius Pana wrote: > There seems to be issues with the cpio (copy command) as it will copy /prov > over! for example /proc has 0 disk space used in my / root filesystem. > > /tmp/target it now has 4.8GB?! and the cpio operation fails with a no space > on device error. I am about to try and change the option to cpio / find and > see if I cant get it to work. Sorry for the error in the article! The fault is not 'cpio' but elsewhere. I seem to have forgotten to put in a description of how to setup the source directory for the copying. One way to avoid any such paths is to use '-prune' these paths. So the actual find command should have been something like `` find / -path '/tmp/target' -prune \ -o -path '/proc' -prune \ -o -path '/sys' -prune \ -o -print '' A few more paths should be pruned as well. A much simpler solution is to create the source directory as follows `` mkdir /tmp/source mount --bind / /tmp/source mount --bind /boot /tmp/source/boot etc. '' This way you choose each sub-mount that you want to copy. After that you run change directory to /tmp/source before running the 'cpio'. A different solution is to use the '-xdev' option to 'find' which will skip _all_ the sub-mounts. You will then have to copy over the '/boot' file system by a separate command. Hope this clarifies. Regards, Kapil. -- +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Sat Mar 28 06:04:49 2009 Return-Path: Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2SD4fm7000477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:04:43 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38958 helo=linuxmafia.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.61 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1LnYD7-0001Bp-8N ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:04:34 -0700 Received: from genetikayos.com ([64.246.26.120]:40622) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.61 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1LnYCp-0001Bb-HE for ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:04:19 -0700 Received: from localhost.localdomain (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n2SD3vNk000408; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:03:58 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by Tyr (bssmtp 0.3) with SMTP id 40625291; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 08:59:54 -0400 From: Ben Okopnik Message-ID: <20090328125953.GA8408@linuxgazette.net> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 08:59:53 -0400 To: The Answer Gang Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Marius Pana References: <519f663a0903280212y377fcbf5m7e8c5948124f5fd8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <519f663a0903280212y377fcbf5m7e8c5948124f5fd8@mail.gmail.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of ben@linuxgazette.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) Cc: Marius Pana X-BeenThere: tag@lists.linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8rc1 Precedence: list Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: tag-bounces@lists.linuxgazette.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on genetikayos.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.4 Subject: Re: [TAG] tkb: Talkback:140/kapil.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:42:28 +0200) Status: RO Content-Length: 1395 Lines: 31 On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:12:10AM +0200, Marius Pana wrote: > There seems to be issues with the cpio (copy command) as it will copy > /prov over! for example /proc has 0 disk space used in my / root > filesystem. In /tmp/target it now has 4.8GB?! and the cpio operation fails > with a no space on device error. I am about to try and change the option > to cpio / find and see if I cant get it to work. The standard magic invocation for 'cpio' used for system backup (after you've burned the sacrificial chicken, of course) is `` find / -path /proc -prune -o -print0 | cpio -o -0 [other options] > out_file.cpio '' ...for reasons that you have now discovered. :) -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ You've asked a question of The Answer Gang, so you've been sent the reply directly as a courtesy. The TAG list has also been copied. Please send all replies to tag@lists.linuxgazette.net, so that we can help our other readers by publishing the exchange in our monthly Web magazine: Linux Gazette (http://linuxgazette.net/) +-+--------------------------------------------------------------------+-+ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag